The Big Blue Wrecking Crew

McCourt blows!!! :-)

BluePastorKyle said:

McCourt blows!!!

Dang, sorry Greg.  I really tried not to type that... 

:-)

I'll let it go THIS time, Rabbi.

On the trade front, John Morosi believes Hiro, Carroll, Blake and Loney are the most intriguing candidates.  I'd like to think that if Garland shows anything, he's up there too.  Morosi also mentions that an exec in the Dodgers org said "If we trade Matt Kemp, we're done."  Yeah, ya think?

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

McCourt blows!!!

Dang, sorry Greg.  I really tried not to type that... 

:-)

I'll let it go THIS time, Rabbi.

Watch your ass.

All eyes on my arse.  Cuz dang, according to the Blonde, it's worth watching.

Sell!  There is high interest in Kuroda, but he will need an extension to agree to a trade.  I see the Yankees, Reds and Rockies already showing interest and I would think that the Red Sox will show interest if only to keep the Yankees from getting him.   Carroll also shows some value and I would not be shocked if Guerrier and Ethier receive interest.    The problem is that Ned is still the GM and we could end up with more overpaid, fat and useless players in return.  

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

McCourt blows!!!

Dang, sorry Greg.  I really tried not to type that... 

:-)

I'll let it go THIS time, Rabbi.

Watch your ass.

All eyes on my arse.  Cuz dang, according to the Blonde, it's worth watching.

:-))

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

McCourt blows!!!

Dang, sorry Greg.  I really tried not to type that... 

:-)

I'll let it go THIS time, Rabbi.

Watch your ass.

All eyes on my arse.  Cuz dang, according to the Blonde, it's worth watching.

It would draw attention away from the nose.  b-(

grabarkewitz said:

Sell!  There is high interest in Kuroda, but he will need an extension to agree to a trade.  I see the Yankees, Reds and Rockies already showing interest and I would think that the Red Sox will show interest if only to keep the Yankees from getting him.   Carroll also shows some value and I would not be shocked if Guerrier and Ethier receive interest.    The problem is that Ned is still the GM and we could end up with more overpaid, fat and useless players in return.  

Now, if I am Ned, we are buyers because Ned is a Pollyanna.  He sees nine games back and thinks a winning streak puts us back into it.  He doesn't take into consideration that this team is hugely flawed and we have a pop gun offense.  While I would love to blame Frank for everything, Ned deserves his fair share, also. 

Careful, dude!  "Overpaid, fat and useless" is how I live my life!

grabarkewitz said:

Sell!  There is high interest in Kuroda, but he will need an extension to agree to a trade.  I see the Yankees, Reds and Rockies already showing interest and I would think that the Red Sox will show interest if only to keep the Yankees from getting him.   Carroll also shows some value and I would not be shocked if Guerrier and Ethier receive interest.    The problem is that Ned is still the GM and we could end up with more overpaid, fat and useless players in return.  

Now, if I am Ned, we are buyers because Ned is a Pollyanna.  He sees nine games back and thinks a winning streak puts us back into it.  He doesn't take into consideration that this team is hugely flawed and we have a pop gun offense.  While I would love to blame Frank for everything, Ned deserves his fair share, also. 

Ned is the most dangerous Dodger employee, hands down.

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

McCourt blows!!!

Dang, sorry Greg.  I really tried not to type that... 

:-)

I'll let it go THIS time, Rabbi.

Watch your ass.

All eyes on my arse.  Cuz dang, according to the Blonde, it's worth watching.

It would draw attention away from the nose.  b-(

My second-best feature.

bigblaster said:

grabarkewitz said:

Sell!  There is high interest in Kuroda, but he will need an extension to agree to a trade.  I see the Yankees, Reds and Rockies already showing interest and I would think that the Red Sox will show interest if only to keep the Yankees from getting him.   Carroll also shows some value and I would not be shocked if Guerrier and Ethier receive interest.    The problem is that Ned is still the GM and we could end up with more overpaid, fat and useless players in return.  

Now, if I am Ned, we are buyers because Ned is a Pollyanna.  He sees nine games back and thinks a winning streak puts us back into it.  He doesn't take into consideration that this team is hugely flawed and we have a pop gun offense.  While I would love to blame Frank for everything, Ned deserves his fair share, also. 

Careful, dude!  "Overpaid, fat and useless" is how I live my life!

That is the opinion of Herself, but I am skinny, useless and still eleven.  

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

McCourt blows!!!

Dang, sorry Greg.  I really tried not to type that... 

:-)

I'll let it go THIS time, Rabbi.

Watch your ass.

All eyes on my arse.  Cuz dang, according to the Blonde, it's worth watching.

It would draw attention away from the nose.  b-(

My second-best feature.

I wish I had a second best feature.   According to Herself my only worthwhile feature is my wallet.  She is in a bad mood today, someone drank one too many Margaritas last night and she just screamed at the cat for walking too loudly. 

I would love to see Ned sell, but aside from the problems inherent in his tenure as GM that have been mentioned here already, the problem I have with selling is that I don't salivate at every possible minor league player. I want at MINIMUM near major league ready players in AAA back for guys like Kuroda or Carroll. If Ethier goes, we need to get more back. I'm not enamored of getting a bunch of low to mid minors guys with upside because, well, we know how that can go. So I would say we need help at catcher and third base for starters.

Of course, we're talking about Ned Colletti here.

Buy OR sell? Man, that's an easy choice. SELL, SELL, SELL!!!!!!

This team is deeply flawed. The pitching is good, but definitely not GREAT and the offense is terrible. Here's who I would move - wait, scratch that, here's who I wouldn't move:
Kemp, Kershaw, Billingsley & youth movement 2.0 (Gordon, Sands, De La Rosa, etc.)

Here's who I expect to bring back some value:
Kuroda, Ethier, Carroll, Miles (to a lesser extent).

Here's who *could* bring back some value, if they get off the schnide before July 31:
Furcal, Kuo, Garland, Blake, Thames, Barajas.

If you can get ANYTHING for ANYONE else, you do it.

I am actually prepared for and would LOVE to watch this lineup:

Gordon SS
Trayvon RF
Kemp CF
Uribe 3B (seriously, who's gonna trade for him?)
Loney 1B (again, I'm not sure we can move him)
Sands LF
Ellis C
DeJesus 2B

...and this rotation....
Kershaw, Billingsley, Lilly (again, who would take him?), De La Rosa, Ely.

Let's restock the farm and see what these kids got!

In the off-season you lockup Kemp and Kershaw, then go for Prince, while the Cubs court Albert and all of a sudden, this lineup is back in business. Kemp/Fielder would be NASTY. If Gordon, Sands, DeJesus, or Robinson get going, then I think we have enough pitching to make a run at the division in 2012 and are set-up very well from that point forward.

DoppelgangBang said:

Buy OR sell? Man, that's an easy choice. SELL, SELL, SELL!!!!!!

This team is deeply flawed. The pitching is good, but definitely not GREAT and the offense is terrible. Here's who I would move - wait, scratch that, here's who I wouldn't move:
Kemp, Kershaw, Billingsley & youth movement 2.0 (Gordon, Sands, De La Rosa, etc.)

Here's who I expect to bring back some value:
Kuroda, Ethier, Carroll, Miles (to a lesser extent).

Here's who *could* bring back some value, if they get off the schnide before July 31:
Furcal, Kuo, Garland, Blake, Thames, Barajas.

If you can get ANYTHING for ANYONE else, you do it.

I am actually prepared for and would LOVE to watch this lineup:

Gordon SS
Trayvon RF
Kemp CF
Uribe 3B (seriously, who's gonna trade for him?)
Loney 1B (again, I'm not sure we can move him)
Sands LF
Ellis C
DeJesus 2B

...and this rotation....
Kershaw, Billingsley, Lilly (again, who would take him?), De La Rosa, Ely.

Let's restock the farm and see what these kids got!

In the off-season you lockup Kemp and Kershaw, then go for Prince, while the Cubs court Albert and all of a sudden, this lineup is back in business. Kemp/Fielder would be NASTY. If Gordon, Sands, DeJesus, or Robinson get going, then I think we have enough pitching to make a run at the division in 2012 and are set-up very well from that point forward.

Prince scares me, Nick.  I get that sick feeling that he will not be able to keep his weight down and in three years he will be a DH with a huge contract.   With so many holes, I would rather fill one of the pitching slots, Edwin Jackson comes to mind and he would be cheaper to keep and find some kids to man second, third and catcher.   That is where Kuroda, Ethier and the rest come in.   Kuroda should get us two top end prospects and Ethier should net two to three.  If we had a forward thinking GM, I would think he could accomplish this, but with Ned, I am scared he will screw the pooch. 

grabarkewitz said:

DoppelgangBang said:

Buy OR sell? Man, that's an easy choice. SELL, SELL, SELL!!!!!!

This team is deeply flawed. The pitching is good, but definitely not GREAT and the offense is terrible. Here's who I would move - wait, scratch that, here's who I wouldn't move:
Kemp, Kershaw, Billingsley & youth movement 2.0 (Gordon, Sands, De La Rosa, etc.)

Here's who I expect to bring back some value:
Kuroda, Ethier, Carroll, Miles (to a lesser extent).

Here's who *could* bring back some value, if they get off the schnide before July 31:
Furcal, Kuo, Garland, Blake, Thames, Barajas.

If you can get ANYTHING for ANYONE else, you do it.

I am actually prepared for and would LOVE to watch this lineup:

Gordon SS
Trayvon RF
Kemp CF
Uribe 3B (seriously, who's gonna trade for him?)
Loney 1B (again, I'm not sure we can move him)
Sands LF
Ellis C
DeJesus 2B

...and this rotation....
Kershaw, Billingsley, Lilly (again, who would take him?), De La Rosa, Ely.

Let's restock the farm and see what these kids got!

In the off-season you lockup Kemp and Kershaw, then go for Prince, while the Cubs court Albert and all of a sudden, this lineup is back in business. Kemp/Fielder would be NASTY. If Gordon, Sands, DeJesus, or Robinson get going, then I think we have enough pitching to make a run at the division in 2012 and are set-up very well from that point forward.

Prince scares me, Nick.  I get that sick feeling that he will not be able to keep his weight down and in three years he will be a DH with a huge contract.   With so many holes, I would rather fill one of the pitching slots, Edwin Jackson comes to mind and he would be cheaper to keep and find some kids to man second, third and catcher.   That is where Kuroda, Ethier and the rest come in.   Kuroda should get us two top end prospects and Ethier should net two to three.  If we had a forward thinking GM, I would think he could accomplish this, but with Ned, I am scared he will screw the pooch. 

Kuroda to the Yankees with Guerrier thrown in should get us Romine, Banuelos and Brandon Laird, catch, third and a lefty starter.  Ethier to the Red Sox should net us Reddick, Anderson ( I am still high on this kid and he is blocked for all practical purposes) and either Vitek or young lefty Drake Britton would work for me.  If the Rox want Carroll, I would stump for Christian Friedrich as he could give us another very good lefty in the pen.  

I understand the fear on Prince and I wouldn't overbid for the guy. I'd give him Ryan Howard money: 5/125. Any more than 5 years and I am OUT of the bidding. I think buying his age 28-32 years is a moderate risk investment. The guy has a 932 career OPS (900+ road OPS, so can't argue he's purely a creation of Miller Park) and is putting up career numbers entering his prime. His father, a VERY appropos comp, stopped producing in his age 33 year, which is exactly the year I wouldn't guarantee for Prince. We need bats, man, bats and Prince is the BEST option available unless you think it's wise to go 7 years on a 31 year old Pujols.

The real problem here is what will our payroll be in 2012 ... because if it's 88M, we can't afford Prince, Albert or anyone decent. If we can up it to 125-150, then Prince fits in PERFECTLY.

Count me in on Fielder as well. And I also think a Ryan Howard-esque contract would be in order.

I also would not go longer than 5 yrs on Fielder, but if upping the ante to $26 or $27 mill a year would do it, I say go for it.

He's entering his prime years and he is going to be the best bat available.

Considering just how anemic the Dodger offense is, they really need Fielder in a bad way, especially if they do end up dealing Ethier.

shmolnick said:

I would love to see Ned sell, but aside from the problems inherent in his tenure as GM that have been mentioned here already, the problem I have with selling is that I don't salivate at every possible minor league player. I want at MINIMUM near major league ready players in AAA back for guys like Kuroda or Carroll. If Ethier goes, we need to get more back. I'm not enamored of getting a bunch of low to mid minors guys with upside because, well, we know how that can go. So I would say we need help at catcher and third base for starters.

Of course, we're talking about Ned Colletti here.

Exactly how I see it. as well. I'm fine with letting the remainder of 2011 be an all out audition of our own AA and AAA maybes and probablys. But any minor leaguer accepted in a trade for the few meaningful chips we have, should at the minimum be realistic possibilities to win a ML roster spot in 2012.

Count me in on Fielder as well. And I also think a Ryan Howard-esque contract would be in order.

I also would not go longer than 5 yrs on Fielder, but if upping the ante to $26 or $27 mill a year would do it, I say go for it.

He's entering his prime years and he is going to be the best bat available.

Considering just how anemic the Dodger offense is, they really need Fielder in a bad way, especially if they do end up dealing Ethier.

The thing that should be frightening is that Boras is Fielder's agent and he is looking for more than five years.  I also think he will wait to see what Reyes and Pujols get before taking offers.   Pujols will likely only get five years, but Reyes could get seven or eight years.   It may make sense to dump a load of money into player development and the international market instead of meeting Fielder's(Boras') price. 

grabarkewitz said:

Count me in on Fielder as well. And I also think a Ryan Howard-esque contract would be in order.

I also would not go longer than 5 yrs on Fielder, but if upping the ante to $26 or $27 mill a year would do it, I say go for it.

He's entering his prime years and he is going to be the best bat available.

Considering just how anemic the Dodger offense is, they really need Fielder in a bad way, especially if they do end up dealing Ethier.

The thing that should be frightening is that Boras is Fielder's agent and he is looking for more than five years.  I also think he will wait to see what Reyes and Pujols get before taking offers.   Pujols will likely only get five years, but Reyes could get seven or eight years.   It may make sense to dump a load of money into player development and the international market instead of meeting Fielder's(Boras') price. 

Honestly, I wouldn't wiggle much on that 5/125 figure. Definitely not a single year more and I'm not sure I'd go any higher on the avg per year. Who is bidding on him? Boston is out - AGon; Yanks have Teix; Mets have Ike Davis and serious financial problems.

It's the Cubs, maybe, and us (Frank McCourt maybe) ... St. Louis possibly might get involved, but if they wouldn't go that high for Pujols, you think they'll go that high for a FA like Fielder? Their fans would kill them.

I don't know where that 7/160 offer would be coming from ... Baltimore? I just don't see it.

With Ned at the controls, selling is almost as scary as buying.  Of course, he will never admit that we are out of contention until it's a mathematical cinch.  Still, do you even want to think of Ned trading Ethier for what he deems a good return?

DoppelgangBang said:

grabarkewitz said:

Count me in on Fielder as well. And I also think a Ryan Howard-esque contract would be in order.

I also would not go longer than 5 yrs on Fielder, but if upping the ante to $26 or $27 mill a year would do it, I say go for it.

He's entering his prime years and he is going to be the best bat available.

Considering just how anemic the Dodger offense is, they really need Fielder in a bad way, especially if they do end up dealing Ethier.

The thing that should be frightening is that Boras is Fielder's agent and he is looking for more than five years.  I also think he will wait to see what Reyes and Pujols get before taking offers.   Pujols will likely only get five years, but Reyes could get seven or eight years.   It may make sense to dump a load of money into player development and the international market instead of meeting Fielder's(Boras') price. 

Honestly, I wouldn't wiggle much on that 5/125 figure. Definitely not a single year more and I'm not sure I'd go any higher on the avg per year. Who is bidding on him? Boston is out - AGon; Yanks have Teix; Mets have Ike Davis and serious financial problems.

It's the Cubs, maybe, and us (Frank McCourt maybe) ... St. Louis possibly might get involved, but if they wouldn't go that high for Pujols, you think they'll go that high for a FA like Fielder? Their fans would kill them.

I don't know where that 7/160 offer would be coming from ... Baltimore? I just don't see it.

Don't forget the Nationals as Ted Lerner is not afraid to spend and he has a good relationship with Boras.  Plus, Ortiz is a free agent and not getting any younger, don't be shocked if the Sox decide to spend on Fielder instead.   

grabarkewitz said:

DoppelgangBang said:

grabarkewitz said:

Count me in on Fielder as well. And I also think a Ryan Howard-esque contract would be in order.

I also would not go longer than 5 yrs on Fielder, but if upping the ante to $26 or $27 mill a year would do it, I say go for it.

He's entering his prime years and he is going to be the best bat available.

Considering just how anemic the Dodger offense is, they really need Fielder in a bad way, especially if they do end up dealing Ethier.

The thing that should be frightening is that Boras is Fielder's agent and he is looking for more than five years.  I also think he will wait to see what Reyes and Pujols get before taking offers.   Pujols will likely only get five years, but Reyes could get seven or eight years.   It may make sense to dump a load of money into player development and the international market instead of meeting Fielder's(Boras') price. 

Honestly, I wouldn't wiggle much on that 5/125 figure. Definitely not a single year more and I'm not sure I'd go any higher on the avg per year. Who is bidding on him? Boston is out - AGon; Yanks have Teix; Mets have Ike Davis and serious financial problems.

It's the Cubs, maybe, and us (Frank McCourt maybe) ... St. Louis possibly might get involved, but if they wouldn't go that high for Pujols, you think they'll go that high for a FA like Fielder? Their fans would kill them.

I don't know where that 7/160 offer would be coming from ... Baltimore? I just don't see it.

Don't forget the Nationals as Ted Lerner is not afraid to spend and he has a good relationship with Boras.  Plus, Ortiz is a free agent and not getting any younger, don't be shocked if the Sox decide to spend on Fielder instead.   

Still, with today's news, I have to think that this farce will continue to play for three more weeks.  If it ends then and new ownership is in place by November, I would say the new owners will want to make a splash, but it all depends on which entity is running the Dodgers, the bankruptcy court or the MLB.  

That reality is becoming increasingly distant with every court ruling and I'm starting to doubt that we'd get new ownership before next year.

DoppelgangBang said:

grabarkewitz said:

DoppelgangBang said:

grabarkewitz said:

Count me in on Fielder as well. And I also think a Ryan Howard-esque contract would be in order.

I also would not go longer than 5 yrs on Fielder, but if upping the ante to $26 or $27 mill a year would do it, I say go for it.

He's entering his prime years and he is going to be the best bat available.

Considering just how anemic the Dodger offense is, they really need Fielder in a bad way, especially if they do end up dealing Ethier.

The thing that should be frightening is that Boras is Fielder's agent and he is looking for more than five years.  I also think he will wait to see what Reyes and Pujols get before taking offers.   Pujols will likely only get five years, but Reyes could get seven or eight years.   It may make sense to dump a load of money into player development and the international market instead of meeting Fielder's(Boras') price. 

Honestly, I wouldn't wiggle much on that 5/125 figure. Definitely not a single year more and I'm not sure I'd go any higher on the avg per year. Who is bidding on him? Boston is out - AGon; Yanks have Teix; Mets have Ike Davis and serious financial problems.

It's the Cubs, maybe, and us (Frank McCourt maybe) ... St. Louis possibly might get involved, but if they wouldn't go that high for Pujols, you think they'll go that high for a FA like Fielder? Their fans would kill them.

I don't know where that 7/160 offer would be coming from ... Baltimore? I just don't see it.

Don't forget the Nationals as Ted Lerner is not afraid to spend and he has a good relationship with Boras.  Plus, Ortiz is a free agent and not getting any younger, don't be shocked if the Sox decide to spend on Fielder instead.   

Still, with today's news, I have to think that this farce will continue to play for three more weeks.  If it ends then and new ownership is in place by November, I would say the new owners will want to make a splash, but it all depends on which entity is running the Dodgers, the bankruptcy court or the MLB.  

That reality is becoming increasingly distant with every court ruling and I'm starting to doubt that we'd get new ownership before next year.

The one plus is that the MLB has got the TV rights taken off of the table, so on the 21st, Frank will be in the same situation as today only that the bankruptcy court will see if McCourt can make his payments on his DIP financing.  I got money that says no.  After all, Shaikin says the MLB is claiming victory.  I don't see it, but maybe, as UCSB is saying, the MLB is going after the whole thing and if the loan is called due on the parking lots, Frank could be drowning and no one will throw him a life preserver. 

I heard Ned on KABC this morning during my drive to work. They were talking about the 15-0 game yesterday and Ned was all excited saying it's a really great group of talented guys and he thinks they've finally turned the corner and they're poised to make a move in the 2nd half.

I just slapped my forehead...

GenericFan said:

I heard Ned on KABC this morning during my drive to work. They were talking about the 15-0 game yesterday and Ned was all excited saying it's a really great group of talented guys and he thinks they've finally turned the corner and they're poised to make a move in the 2nd half.

I just slapped my forehead...

Haha! He just ignored the fact that 15 runs is more in one game than we'd scored in the previous 5 days.

I kept myself calm by repeating, "he's a PR guy, he doesn't really believe that... he's a PR guy, he doesn't realy believe that... he's a PR guy..."

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

McCourt blows!!!

Dang, sorry Greg.  I really tried not to type that... 

:-)

I'll let it go THIS time, Rabbi.

Watch your ass.

All eyes on my arse.  Cuz dang, according to the Blonde, it's worth watching.

It would draw attention away from the nose.  b-(

My second-best feature.

And your third . . . and fourth . . . and fifth . . . and...

As we talk 1Bmen for 2012, we have to consider that Sands has nothing left to prove in AAA. He will be in the show next season. Also, Robinson will likely be ready. Unless Ethier is traded, we have one too many OFers, and 2 guys who can play 1B (Sands/Loney). From what I hear about Tray, I don't think he has the arm to play RF. So Loney (also due to his play) is the obvious man out. But signing a free agent isn't the answer when we have Sands. 

hunteralan said:

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

bigblaster said:

BluePastorKyle said:

McCourt blows!!!

Dang, sorry Greg.  I really tried not to type that... 

:-)

I'll let it go THIS time, Rabbi.

Watch your ass.

All eyes on my arse.  Cuz dang, according to the Blonde, it's worth watching.

It would draw attention away from the nose.  b-(

My second-best feature.

And your third . . . and fourth . . . and fifth . . . and...

I smell trouble.  And more trouble... and more trouble...

BluePastorKyle said:

As we talk 1Bmen for 2012, we have to consider that Sands has nothing left to prove in AAA. He will be in the show next season. Also, Robinson will likely be ready. Unless Ethier is traded, we have one too many OFers, and 2 guys who can play 1B (Sands/Loney). From what I hear about Tray, I don't think he has the arm to play RF. So Loney (also due to his play) is the obvious man out. But signing a free agent isn't the answer when we have Sands. 

I think we're barking up the wrong position.

Let's talk another Robinson... Cano!!!

I know, I know.

I understand that argument, but I think the time is now to trade Ethier. He's attrocious against lefties and has shown zero power this year. Tray and Sands should both be in the lineup next year regardless, I just think that we're better off by trading Ethier for premium prospects (also shedding a significant salary) and commiting his resources to Prince, a guaranteed power commodity. I think it makes more sense.

Just a few months ago we were talking about Adam Dunn, and how he would solve our offensive problems.  I mean the beast had hit 38-40 home runs six years in a row.  Look at him now.  He's hitting .173 with only seven home runs and a ton of K's.  He's fallen off the face of the earth (and dragged my fantasy team with him.)

SamAdams said:

Just a few months ago we were talking about Adam Dunn, and how he would solve our offensive problems.  I mean the beast had hit 38-40 home runs six years in a row.  Look at him now.  He's hitting .173 with only seven home runs and a ton of K's.  He's fallen off the face of the earth (and dragged my fantasy team with him.)

Why do I mention this?  Prince Fielder could be the next Dunn.  Dunn actually appears to be in better condition than Fielder, vegetarianism aside.  If Ned gave Fielder five years or more, it would almost certainly be the worst contract in history.  Not that Fielder is certain to fall off, but if Ned signed Babe Ruth in 1923, he would have died of alcohol poisoning.

Dunn has NEVER been in the same league as Fielder as a hitter.  I for one, am not surprised at all about Dunn.  He's never been able to hit,

hat being said, it won't surprise me in the least if Fielder does fall off the face of the earth too.

Just read that Dunn is seeing the White Sox team psychologist.  

DoppelgangBang said:

BluePastorKyle said:

As we talk 1Bmen for 2012, we have to consider that Sands has nothing left to prove in AAA. He will be in the show next season. Also, Robinson will likely be ready. Unless Ethier is traded, we have one too many OFers, and 2 guys who can play 1B (Sands/Loney). From what I hear about Tray, I don't think he has the arm to play RF. So Loney (also due to his play) is the obvious man out. But signing a free agent isn't the answer when we have Sands. 

I think we're barking up the wrong position.

Let's talk another Robinson... Cano!!!

I know, I know.

I understand that argument, but I think the time is now to trade Ethier. He's attrocious against lefties and has shown zero power this year. Tray and Sands should both be in the lineup next year regardless, I just think that we're better off by trading Ethier for premium prospects (also shedding a significant salary) and commiting his resources to Prince, a guaranteed power commodity. I think it makes more sense.

Except that you're losing a .320 hitter with decent power in favor of a .270 hitting fat monster, for twice the money.  The difference between Ethier and Fielder isn't vast enough to merit 5/125 IMO.  

BluePastorKyle said:

DoppelgangBang said:

BluePastorKyle said:

As we talk 1Bmen for 2012, we have to consider that Sands has nothing left to prove in AAA. He will be in the show next season. Also, Robinson will likely be ready. Unless Ethier is traded, we have one too many OFers, and 2 guys who can play 1B (Sands/Loney). From what I hear about Tray, I don't think he has the arm to play RF. So Loney (also due to his play) is the obvious man out. But signing a free agent isn't the answer when we have Sands. 

I think we're barking up the wrong position.

Let's talk another Robinson... Cano!!!

I know, I know.

I understand that argument, but I think the time is now to trade Ethier. He's attrocious against lefties and has shown zero power this year. Tray and Sands should both be in the lineup next year regardless, I just think that we're better off by trading Ethier for premium prospects (also shedding a significant salary) and commiting his resources to Prince, a guaranteed power commodity. I think it makes more sense.

Except that you're losing a .320 hitter with decent power in favor of a .270 hitting fat monster, for twice the money.  The difference between Ethier and Fielder isn't vast enough to merit 5/125 IMO.  

Kyle, I disagree. I think Fielder is the superior overall hitter when you factor in his power. Fielder's career OPS is .929, while Ethier's is .854 and Fielder has both a higher OBP and SLG.

In the post-steroids era, having a power-hitter who also has Fielder's on-base skills is very rare.

Someone used Prince's dad, Cecil, as his comp and I agree with that and Cecil didn't really start to fade until he was 33.

With Fielder being 27 right now, I would be okay giving him a 5 yr deal. Even if he were to be declining by 32, it wouldn't be a horrible contract as long as Fielder produced the first 4 years of the deal.

Its a gamble, but considering the lack of pop the Dodgers have with the big club, I think its a gamble they need to take. Kemp needs more protection in the lineup and even if Sands does develop, he is not enough help.

While looking for potential comparables to Prince Fielder I noticed that baseballreference has his dad listed as 6-3, 230.

A. Was Cecil really 6-3?
B. 230 was his high school freshman season weight, right?

Mo Vaughn and David Ortiz also seem like reasonable comparables in performance and body type, don't they?

John Kruk and Tony Gwynn were also pretty skilled fat men. :)

Personally, I like Prince. I think he'd be a pretty good bet through age 32 or 33.

BluePastorKyle said:

DoppelgangBang said:

BluePastorKyle said:

As we talk 1Bmen for 2012, we have to consider that Sands has nothing left to prove in AAA. He will be in the show next season. Also, Robinson will likely be ready. Unless Ethier is traded, we have one too many OFers, and 2 guys who can play 1B (Sands/Loney). From what I hear about Tray, I don't think he has the arm to play RF. So Loney (also due to his play) is the obvious man out. But signing a free agent isn't the answer when we have Sands. 

I think we're barking up the wrong position.

Let's talk another Robinson... Cano!!!

I know, I know.

I understand that argument, but I think the time is now to trade Ethier. He's attrocious against lefties and has shown zero power this year. Tray and Sands should both be in the lineup next year regardless, I just think that we're better off by trading Ethier for premium prospects (also shedding a significant salary) and commiting his resources to Prince, a guaranteed power commodity. I think it makes more sense.

Except that you're losing a .320 hitter with decent power in favor of a .270 hitting fat monster, for twice the money.  The difference between Ethier and Fielder isn't vast enough to merit 5/125 IMO.  

Kyle, I disagree. I think Fielder is the superior overall hitter when you factor in his power. Fielder's career OPS is .929, while Ethier's is .854 and Fielder has both a higher OBP and SLG.

In the post-steroids era, having a power-hitter who also has Fielder's on-base skills is very rare.

Someone used Prince's dad, Cecil, as his comp and I agree with that and Cecil didn't really start to fade until he was 33.

With Fielder being 27 right now, I would be okay giving him a 5 yr deal. Even if he were to be declining by 32, it wouldn't be a horrible contract as long as Fielder produced the first 4 years of the deal.

Its a gamble, but considering the lack of pop the Dodgers have with the big club, I think its a gamble they need to take. Kemp needs more protection in the lineup and even if Sands does develop, he is not enough help.

Ironically, when I looked at Cecil's numbers on The Baseball Cube, I found that the baseball card pic the site has for Cecil is actually . . . PRINCE!  Take a look, Cecil never played for the Brewers and that sure looks like Ryan Braun ducking the right cross of Mr. Fielder . . . the Younger!

In any case, I agree with DH on this one.  Fielder is much more a hitter than Ethier.  Fielder still has a split differential between lefties and righties, but not near as severe as Ethier.  Fielder is without question the more feared power hitter, and Fielder has developed into a much more patient hitter which unquestionably makes him more of an on-base threat.  Add that he is entering his prime physical years (all obvious fat jokes aside) and Ethier his hitting 30 next season, and I'd feel secure with a contract along the lines of those discussed here as well.

Problem is, I don't think five years even gets us a foot in the door.  Fielder is going to be asking (and almost certainly will be offered) a few years more than that.  At 8 years and over $160 million, I'm not so sure I'm as secure.

GenericFan said:

While looking for potential comparables to Prince Fielder I noticed that baseballreference has his dad listed as 6-3, 230.

A. Was Cecil really 6-3?
B. 230 was his high school freshman season weight, right?

Mo Vaughn and David Ortiz also seem like reasonable comparables in performance and body type, don't they?

John Kruk and Tony Gwynn were also pretty skilled fat men. :)

Personally, I like Prince. I think he'd be a pretty good bet through age 32 or 33.

That would be great but none of those guys could play a lick of defense, after thirty, and we do not have the DH.  If we had the DH in the NL, I would lead the charge for Prince, but we don't.  I doubt Ortiz even owns a glove anymore and Vaughn did the most damage to his career by playing first for the Angels.   As for Gwynn, after thirty, he was Kingmanesque in rightfield.   His arm, never special, went south when he started packing on the pounds and if Padres were an AL club, he would've been a DH also.   As for Kruk, he couldn't even cut it at first and they stuck him in left to protect him.   I am just worried that Prince will be unable to maintain his pear shape when he has a big contract and knows he will get paid no matter how fat he gets.  

I think it's all a pipe dream, personally:

bigblaster said:

I think it's all a pipe dream, personally:

1) Realistically, the Dodgers will not be able to afford Prince (or anybody of his caliber) in 2011 because the ownership issue likely won't be resolved by November/December and, assuming that's true,

2) Why would Fielder (or ANY front-line A-list free agent) voluntarily sign with a three-ring circus like the Dodgers without certain and stable ownership?

Exactly my worry why McCourt is dragging this out, hell, I'm starting to even worry about the 2012 off-season, and having to see Kemp leave as a FA.

bigblaster said:

I think it's all a pipe dream, personally:

1) Realistically, the Dodgers will not be able to afford Prince (or anybody of his caliber) in 2011 because the ownership issue likely won't be resolved by November/December and, assuming that's true,

2) Why would Fielder (or ANY front-line A-list free agent) voluntarily sign with a three-ring circus like the Dodgers without certain and stable ownership?

Hahahaa ... dude, didn't you set the ground rules for this thread and say no McCourt hate? I thought this was some sort of a hypothetical discussion or a discussion assuming we had new ownership. Oh well, McCourt is so slimy, he seeps into every crack.

bigblaster said:

I think it's all a pipe dream, personally:

1) Realistically, the Dodgers will not be able to afford Prince (or anybody of his caliber) in 2011 because the ownership issue likely won't be resolved by November/December and, assuming that's true,

2) Why would Fielder (or ANY front-line A-list free agent) voluntarily sign with a three-ring circus like the Dodgers without certain and stable ownership?

Our only hope is that the MLB can dissolve the three ring circus of entities McCourt has created under the umbrella of the Dodgers.   I have to think that when the $67 million loan comes due on the parking lot on Thursday and Frank defaults on that, the MLB should have a rock solid case for the 20th.   I still think Bud will take the franchise sometime before then as he gave Frank enough rope to hang himself and I have a sick feeling that of that $60 million he will receive today to make payroll, the other $30 million will go into his pocket, minus the $4.5 million financing fee.   The guy is out for one thing, himself.   I doubt he will do the right thing and sign some draft picks or pay his lawyers, instead he will take care of himself and likely head to someplace where he can't be extradited.   I hear North Korea could use a man like McCourt.  After all, that is the home of the delusional. 

grabarkewitz said:

bigblaster said:

I think it's all a pipe dream, personally:

1) Realistically, the Dodgers will not be able to afford Prince (or anybody of his caliber) in 2011 because the ownership issue likely won't be resolved by November/December and, assuming that's true,

2) Why would Fielder (or ANY front-line A-list free agent) voluntarily sign with a three-ring circus like the Dodgers without certain and stable ownership?

Our only hope is that the MLB can dissolve the three ring circus of entities McCourt has created under the umbrella of the Dodgers.   I have to think that when the $67 million loan comes due on the parking lot on Thursday and Frank defaults on that, the MLB should have a rock solid case for the 20th.   I still think Bud will take the franchise sometime before then as he gave Frank enough rope to hang himself and I have a sick feeling that of that $60 million he will receive today to make payroll, the other $30 million will go into his pocket, minus the $4.5 million financing fee.   The guy is out for one thing, himself.   I doubt he will do the right thing and sign some draft picks or pay his lawyers, instead he will take care of himself and likely head to someplace where he can't be extradited.   I hear North Korea could use a man like McCourt. 

Here it comes! :)

Back to trade mode.  I am still waiting for Ned to figure out that we are in last place and the Giants are racing away with it.   We aren't even in the Wild Card talk.   Ned, beat the rush and start making moves.  Let it be known that anyone not named Kershaw, Kemp, Gordon or RDLR is available and I am sure you will get calls from any and all contenders.   With the paucity of pitching, we could get a nice haul for Kuroda, Guerrier and even Billingsley as his contract is very tradeable.    As for hitters, Furcal looks close to coming back and Ethier would get a sizable return.    Time to face the music, rebuild is the word. 

grabarkewitz said:

Back to trade mode.  I am still waiting for Ned to figure out that we are in last place and the Giants are racing away with it.   We aren't even in the Wild Card talk.   Ned, beat the rush and start making moves.  Let it be known that anyone not named Kershaw, Kemp, Gordon or RDLR is available and I am sure you will get calls from any and all contenders.   With the paucity of pitching, we could get a nice haul for Kuroda, Guerrier and even Billingsley as his contract is very tradeable.    As for hitters, Furcal looks close to coming back and Ethier would get a sizable return.    Time to face the music, rebuild is the word. 

It's the end of June and we're 10.5 out of the division, 10 out of the wild card. To make a run would require us to add a top-flight pitcher and middle of the order bat. Even then, there's a good chance we don't make the post-season. What's the debate? Come on, Neddy boy! Show us that talent that turned Bradley into Ethier!!!! (his ONLY good move)

BluePastorKyle said:

DoppelgangBang said:

BluePastorKyle said:

As we talk 1Bmen for 2012, we have to consider that Sands has nothing left to prove in AAA. He will be in the show next season. Also, Robinson will likely be ready. Unless Ethier is traded, we have one too many OFers, and 2 guys who can play 1B (Sands/Loney). From what I hear about Tray, I don't think he has the arm to play RF. So Loney (also due to his play) is the obvious man out. But signing a free agent isn't the answer when we have Sands. 

I think we're barking up the wrong position.

Let's talk another Robinson... Cano!!!

I know, I know.

I understand that argument, but I think the time is now to trade Ethier. He's attrocious against lefties and has shown zero power this year. Tray and Sands should both be in the lineup next year regardless, I just think that we're better off by trading Ethier for premium prospects (also shedding a significant salary) and commiting his resources to Prince, a guaranteed power commodity. I think it makes more sense.

Except that you're losing a .320 hitter with decent power in favor of a .270 hitting fat monster, for twice the money.  The difference between Ethier and Fielder isn't vast enough to merit 5/125 IMO.  

Kyle, I disagree. I think Fielder is the superior overall hitter when you factor in his power. Fielder's career OPS is .929, while Ethier's is .854 and Fielder has both a higher OBP and SLG.

In the post-steroids era, having a power-hitter who also has Fielder's on-base skills is very rare.

Someone used Prince's dad, Cecil, as his comp and I agree with that and Cecil didn't really start to fade until he was 33.

With Fielder being 27 right now, I would be okay giving him a 5 yr deal. Even if he were to be declining by 32, it wouldn't be a horrible contract as long as Fielder produced the first 4 years of the deal.

Its a gamble, but considering the lack of pop the Dodgers have with the big club, I think its a gamble they need to take. Kemp needs more protection in the lineup and even if Sands does develop, he is not enough help.

DH, I didn't mean to suggest they were comparable.  Fielder is certainly the superior hitter, and younger.  I'm just saying I'd rather pay Ethier $15M next year than pay Fielder 5/125 (or more likely 6/150).  The difference between their career numbers doesn't merit such a big jump.  

hunteralan said:

BluePastorKyle said:

DoppelgangBang said:

BluePastorKyle said:

As we talk 1Bmen for 2012, we have to consider that Sands has nothing left to prove in AAA. He will be in the show next season. Also, Robinson will likely be ready. Unless Ethier is traded, we have one too many OFers, and 2 guys who can play 1B (Sands/Loney). From what I hear about Tray, I don't think he has the arm to play RF. So Loney (also due to his play) is the obvious man out. But signing a free agent isn't the answer when we have Sands. 

I think we're barking up the wrong position.

Let's talk another Robinson... Cano!!!

I know, I know.

I understand that argument, but I think the time is now to trade Ethier. He's attrocious against lefties and has shown zero power this year. Tray and Sands should both be in the lineup next year regardless, I just think that we're better off by trading Ethier for premium prospects (also shedding a significant salary) and commiting his resources to Prince, a guaranteed power commodity. I think it makes more sense.

Except that you're losing a .320 hitter with decent power in favor of a .270 hitting fat monster, for twice the money.  The difference between Ethier and Fielder isn't vast enough to merit 5/125 IMO.  

Kyle, I disagree. I think Fielder is the superior overall hitter when you factor in his power. Fielder's career OPS is .929, while Ethier's is .854 and Fielder has both a higher OBP and SLG.

In the post-steroids era, having a power-hitter who also has Fielder's on-base skills is very rare.

Someone used Prince's dad, Cecil, as his comp and I agree with that and Cecil didn't really start to fade until he was 33.

With Fielder being 27 right now, I would be okay giving him a 5 yr deal. Even if he were to be declining by 32, it wouldn't be a horrible contract as long as Fielder produced the first 4 years of the deal.

Its a gamble, but considering the lack of pop the Dodgers have with the big club, I think its a gamble they need to take. Kemp needs more protection in the lineup and even if Sands does develop, he is not enough help.

Ironically, when I looked at Cecil's numbers on The Baseball Cube, I found that the baseball card pic the site has for Cecil is actually . . . PRINCE!  Take a look, Cecil never played for the Brewers and that sure looks like Ryan Braun ducking the right cross of Mr. Fielder . . . the Younger!

In any case, I agree with DH on this one.  Fielder is much more a hitter than Ethier.  Fielder still has a split differential between lefties and righties, but not near as severe as Ethier.  Fielder is without question the more feared power hitter, and Fielder has developed into a much more patient hitter which unquestionably makes him more of an on-base threat.  Add that he is entering his prime physical years (all obvious fat jokes aside) and Ethier his hitting 30 next season, and I'd feel secure with a contract along the lines of those discussed here as well.

Problem is, I don't think five years even gets us a foot in the door.  Fielder is going to be asking (and almost certainly will be offered) a few years more than that.  At 8 years and over $160 million, I'm not so sure I'm as secure.

Yep.  6 years will likely be the low-ball offer.  7 years is likely gonna be "hoped for" by most GMs, but some cheese wad GM will offer 8, so I don't even see the wisdom in speculating.  We don't have the dollars or the cajones.  Never have.

BluePastorKyle said:

BluePastorKyle said:

DoppelgangBang said:

BluePastorKyle said:

As we talk 1Bmen for 2012, we have to consider that Sands has nothing left to prove in AAA. He will be in the show next season. Also, Robinson will likely be ready. Unless Ethier is traded, we have one too many OFers, and 2 guys who can play 1B (Sands/Loney). From what I hear about Tray, I don't think he has the arm to play RF. So Loney (also due to his play) is the obvious man out. But signing a free agent isn't the answer when we have Sands. 

I think we're barking up the wrong position.

Let's talk another Robinson... Cano!!!

I know, I know.

I understand that argument, but I think the time is now to trade Ethier. He's attrocious against lefties and has shown zero power this year. Tray and Sands should both be in the lineup next year regardless, I just think that we're better off by trading Ethier for premium prospects (also shedding a significant salary) and commiting his resources to Prince, a guaranteed power commodity. I think it makes more sense.

Except that you're losing a .320 hitter with decent power in favor of a .270 hitting fat monster, for twice the money.  The difference between Ethier and Fielder isn't vast enough to merit 5/125 IMO.  

Kyle, I disagree. I think Fielder is the superior overall hitter when you factor in his power. Fielder's career OPS is .929, while Ethier's is .854 and Fielder has both a higher OBP and SLG.

In the post-steroids era, having a power-hitter who also has Fielder's on-base skills is very rare.

Someone used Prince's dad, Cecil, as his comp and I agree with that and Cecil didn't really start to fade until he was 33.

With Fielder being 27 right now, I would be okay giving him a 5 yr deal. Even if he were to be declining by 32, it wouldn't be a horrible contract as long as Fielder produced the first 4 years of the deal.

Its a gamble, but considering the lack of pop the Dodgers have with the big club, I think its a gamble they need to take. Kemp needs more protection in the lineup and even if Sands does develop, he is not enough help.

DH, I didn't mean to suggest they were comparable.  Fielder is certainly the superior hitter, and younger.  I'm just saying I'd rather pay Ethier $15M next year than pay Fielder 5/125 (or more likely 6/150).  The difference between their career numbers doesn't merit such a big jump.  

Again, I'm thinking in terms of uncertain ownership this off-season.  I don't think it's even worth our time to speculate on long-term contracts until McCourt is gone and a new owner is identified.  Therefore, keeping Ethier one more season, considering our farm system and who's ready to join the show in 2012, makes the most sense in trying to build a team that can finish atop the NL West.  As much as I'll miss his D, Loney's departure makes the most sense (by July this season so we get something back for him).

We all know we're stuck with Uribe.  But his versatility in the IF means we can look at the 2012 3B or 2B FA class.  Cano is the best catch, obviously, but again ownership precludes me from dreaming too much there. If he can't be pried away from the Yanks, then we go with the CVG option (at 2B AND Catcher, such as Ramon Hernandez) unless a trade lands a MLB-ready stud) and sign another couple of pitchers, hoping Trayvon and Sands live up to their potential.

Dee SS

Tray LF

Ethier RF

Kemp CF

Sands 1B

Uribe 3B

Ramon Hernandez C

Carroll/IDJ2 2B

Well, for this thread, I am assuming that the Dodgers will be operating under new ownership next year. If MLB seizes the team by July and if MLB ends up the favored financing instrument of the Dodgers, then I think Frank and Jamie will cut a deal with MLB and a sale should commence in time to bring in new ownership by 2012.

Again, if the winning bid is 6 years, then the Dodgers pass, but if 5 yrs/$135 mill can get him, then they should bite the bullet and take the gamble.

Cano ain't leaving the Yanks. They will throw ridiculous money at him.

I like re-signing Carroll on a short deal to play 2B and using Robinson to replace Ethier in RF and having Sands in LF. I would shift Uribe over to 3B and keep Ellis at C:

SS Gordon
2B Carroll
CF Kemp
1B Fielder
LF Sands
3B Uribe
RF TRob
C Ellis

Not a perfect lineup, by far. but could be doable by a new ownership with deep pockets.

Maybe the Dodgers can pick up a 3B and/or C prospects in a trade of one of the many trade candidates they have for this upcoming trade deadline and then maybe Uribe can slide over to 2B (where his bat is more acceptable in such a poor offensive position) and/or Ellis can be a backup.

Prince has 41 XBH compared to Andre's 27 in half a season. That's what 100+ point difference in SLG% buys you. It's worth a lot to me. Ethier is a flawed player as well, he has zero speed and is highly mediocre in the OF. He's also shown signs of being a malcontent. We also have SERIOUS depth in the minors at the OF position - not just Tray and Sands ready to go right now. Ownership issues aside, I like the move.