The Big Blue Wrecking Crew

No.

:)

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DoppelgangBang:

No.

:)
A thousand times NO.

Being opposed to the DH, I would prefer the AL be forced to do away with it. That will never happen because the Player's Union would kill any chance of that.

Reluctantly, I have to agree with the point made by BH. One additional reason is that the AL seems to use the DH to their advantage in interleague play and the World Series. You'd think it would be the opposite when their pitchers have to bat, but there is a bigger plus to the way their true DH's produce compared to any minor hitting advantage produced by NL pitchers.

And, yes, if the NL adopted the DH, I'd say sign Manny to a long term deal.

Nope.

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SamAdams:

Being opposed to the DH, I would prefer the AL be forced to do away with it. That will never happen because the Player's Union would kill any chance of that.

Reluctantly, I have to agree with the point made by BH. One additional reason is that the AL seems to use the DH to their advantage in interleague play and the World Series. You'd think it would be the opposite when their pitchers have to bat, but there is a bigger plus to the way their true DH's produce compared to any minor hitting advantage produced by NL pitchers.

And, yes, if the NL adopted the DH, I'd say sign Manny to a long term deal.
I totally agree with Sam Adams. I would prefer that the American League do away with the DH. But he's right, they ain't gonna do it. Reluctantly, I think it's time for both league's to be playing the same game.

Sam brings up another issue. For interleague play, at the AL team's field, they have a DH. The NL team generally ends up using their 4th outfielder, pinch hitting specialist, or a utility IF somewhere in the lineup, and/or shifting somebody to DH. It's no wonder the AL sports an advantage.

Never.

Come on guys, this is a DISCUSSION line. Single syllable answers aren't much in the way of discussion. Perhaps some of you that don't want to see the DH in the NL could elaborate a little.

Why do you feel the DH is a bad idea for the NL, taking into account the reality of MLB? "I don't like it" doesn't really take that into account. I don't like it either, but it's gotten to the point that I may dislike more that there are 2 different games being played at the MLB level.

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Babe Herman:

Let me preface this by saying I hate the DH rule. I think every player should play both defense and offense. The game is to be played by 9 players, IMAO.

However, since the American League is never going to eliminate the DH, it's time for the National League to adopt it as well. The rule is putting the NL at a serious disadvantage when bidding for players. Manny is the perfect example of this. Manny is much more valuable to an AL team than an NL team. An AL team would be far more amenable to giving that extra year to Manny because they can use him as a DH as his career winds down. Manny will have more value as a 40 year old DH than as a 40 year old LF.

The use of the DH also obviously makes it a lot easier to make decisions involving the strategic use of pitchers, for example, do you pinch it for a pitcher who's doing fine, but your team may be down a run in the 6th.

There doesn't seem to be any effort to change the status quo. I think it's time to let go of the premise that the NL plays the game the "correct" way, and level the playing field, and not just between the foul lines.

Dave, I have thought about this plenty over the past thirty years. Given the obvious superiority of the AL, it is time to get the game back on level ground. While I hate the DH like I hate Gintfan and Darron Sutton, it is time to put petty things like the so-called strategy thing out the window and go with the DH. Mind you, I hate to say it, but it will happen...maybe not now, but it won't be long before it is to be.

Let's face it, the NL cuts it throats by sticking to tradition. Tradition be damned, the game has changed over the past thirty years, the NL needs to jump into the 21st century and leave the so-called tradition of the pitcher hitting to the days of yore. But, before the NL even considers it, get the Players' Union to give something up on their side. Why change a 140 years of the game without getting something as a trade off.

I agree with BH. All I've seen from those against it is one word answers. I'd loveto see them elaborate on why exactly they feel that it doesn't put NL teams at a major disadvantage.


Torgy's right. We can get up on our soap box and preach about "the purity of the game" and the AL "cheating" and whatever. But too bad, that's reality, the players mafia... Err ... Union will NEVER allow jobs to be eliminated. So we can bitch and moan and pitch a fit all we want, but its never going to change anything. So, do we shoot ourselves in the foot and keep letting the AL have a huge advantage over us not only on the field, but off the field too when they can use the DH to lure the top hitters in the game. Or do we level the playing field?

I find it funny that We all like to refer to the AL as the "Junior circuit". Wake up folks. The NL is a bunch of pathetic weaklings compared to the AL. They've won 7 out of the last 10 world series' and 11 all star games in a row. Time to face facts and stop living in the '60's and '70's... WE ARE the junior circuit now. And its going to stay that way until we level the playing field.

This is actually a very important discussion, as the DH seems to have spread throughout the baseball environment. I am a long-time fan and prefer the non-DH game as that is what the game was when I grew into a fan, but things do change, like adding teams out of the NE, expanding from 12 to 30 teams.

If the game had stayed the way it was 60 years ago many of us would be fans of the AAA LA Stars, and all the players would be white with no foreigners.

The height of the mound was increased and then decreased. Astro-turf came on, then left. Baseball became a video game when it moved into Denver, but then calmed down with the addition of the humidor. Players got huge and HR totals swelled, along with the batter heads, but then Vitamin S deficiency lead to the return of small-ball.

We survived all that. We could survive the NL switching to the DH.

I prefer using a fuller set of stats than just ERA, BA, RBIs and E's to measure a player's peformance. I preferred players sticking with their clubs a long time, but recognize what was good for us fans was virtually indentured servitude for the players.

The game keeps changing and we need to keep adjusting.

I am not hot for a change to the DH, but it does seem inevitable. I would prefer that to allowing metal bats and some other proposals I have read over the years.

Fair enough: I guess I'm just an old-fashioned purist. Still, I recall CC Sabathia ripping a massive home run in Dodger Stadium. Who was one of the hottest hitters in the post season for the Phillies? Brett Myers. Brett Myers??? Remember 1988? Who outhit both Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire? Orel Hersheiser. Sometimes, watching the worst hitter in the lineup stun everybody is more fun than watching the big stud win a game as he was expected to do.

Making the difficult decision of pulling a pitcher for a pinch hitter (or a double switch) is a part of the strategy. Beyond the fact that I've considered the DH an abomination since its inception, I like the NL strategy far better--even more, it is a deep part of baseball.

Also, raise the mound back up.

Fully agree that the DH takes away much of the strategy of the game. (That's one reason Joe Torre was a better American League manager.) The only thing the DH is good for is furthering the career of a broken down star who can still hit. It's also made for the slugger whose defense is sub-par, like David Ortiz.

Personally, I've always railed against the DH, but it does create an imbalance when trying to sign a guy like Manny and also when we go head to head in an AL park.

I say no to the DH in the National League. While it's true that the game continues to evolve over the years, and that's the natural way of the world, surely SOME traditions must remain to remind us of the historical importance of baseball.

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shmolnick:

I say no to the DH in the National League. While it's true that the game continues to evolve over the years, and that's the natural way of the world, surely SOME traditions must remain to remind us of the historical importance of baseball.

I simply don't want the DH in the National League becuase of how much it pisses off Hank.

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JamesMiranda:

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shmolnick:

I say no to the DH in the National League. While it's true that the game continues to evolve over the years, and that's the natural way of the world, surely SOME traditions must remain to remind us of the historical importance of baseball.

I simply don't want the DH in the National League becuase of how much it pisses off Hank.
That may be the best reason of all!

I think pitchers should be baseball players.

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Lars:

I think pitchers should be baseball players.
I agree. As a pitcher, I don't understand how horrible some pitchers are with a bat. I mean, just basic fundamentals. You would think that NL teams would take the time to teach these players how to handle the bat. I never considered myself just a pitcher when playing, until hitting in college.
If you don't play a position, you may as well play beer league softball. I laughed when David Ortiz was considered for the MVP a few years ago. I just didn't think that was right, and was a slap in the face to the other players who actually played defense. I know the offense gets all the glory, but there is something to be said for a guy who puts up comparable numbers and plays 9 innings, not just 4-5 at bats a game.

Besides, I think, these days, a pitcher might be less inclined to buzz a guy if he's going to the plate later in the game.

I hate the DH it takes so much of the strategy out of the game and reduces the importance of a complete roster. I love it when managers have to make decisions on whether a pitcher can get one more out because he is hitting second in the next inning and want to pinch hit for him. Don't get me wrong I like seeing runs scored as much as the next guy but not to the detriment of the strategy in the game.

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bigblaster:

Besides, I think, these days, a pitcher might be less inclined to buzz a guy if he's going to the plate later in the game.
That's actually been shown to be true. In my wanderings around the internet on the DH subject, I found a study that shows more batters are HBP in the AL than the NL. Not only that, but NL pitchers hit a higher percentage of batters in interleague games when the DH was used than in games where they had to bat.

While I am not a proponent of the DH, I don't hate it per se. I hate what it has become. A place for non athlete who can still hit to cash a couple more paychecks. In my view, a DH should be a guy like a Paul Molitor, or a Dave Winfield later in his career. Meaning someone who is still athletic enough to the field (muliple positions a plus) and has injury issues, or age does not allow them to play the field every day. My perfect DH is someone who can play multiple positions (in a perfect world the one's where my other big hitters play, i.e. CI/CO), where they spend about 50% - 75% of the time at DH and the rest of the time in the field. This keeps all the main players "fresh".

I also prefer the in-game strategy of the NL, but there are some AL teams who do a good job of using their entire roster, Mike Scioscia and the Angels being the perfect example.

While I would not like to see the NL vanish, I could live with it for a price ... from the union.

That price .... SALARY CAP (Floor and Ceiling) and Draft Bonus Reform

In allowing the DH in the NL, we would be enabling the high priced "veterans, i.e. union members" more options to continue their careers ($$).

If we are going to make the leagues "equal", then the revenue and payrolls should be "equalized" as well (with penalties if over/under the ceiling/basements set). Say a $50m basement and $100m ceiling. Still a lot of wiggle room there, but think about what a Pittsburgh, Florida, San Diego (Yech!!), etc ... could do with $50 m rather than $20 to $30 million if they are smart (I know ... I know ... stop laughing).

great idea BF. i too would love to see things implimented that way... although i'd be happy if they just agreed to Ban Bora$$ from the sport in exchange for the DH ^^

Neither team in this WS is exactly running a prototypical DH out there. But, imagine if the Red Sux had won the ALCS, the imbalance between David Ortiz and journeyman catcher Chris Coste at DH.

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SamAdams:

Neither team in this WS is exactly running a prototypical DH out there. But, imagine if the Red Sux had won the ALCS, the imbalance between David Ortiz and journeyman catcher Chris Coste at DH.
That's probably one of the areas where the BoSox' and Yanks' resources most come into play - how many $ they can allocate to a player who does nothing but hit 3-5 times a game. Few other AL clubs have much payroll room left after adequately filling 8 position spots, along with their pitching staffs.

Ortiz wouldn't do the Twinkies much good if their defense was a sieve and/or they had 2-3 Mendoza's in their line-up.

If we consider the DH, Why not go all the way & have an offense & a defense like in football? This is not what I would want, but why limit it to only one player? Really I say no to the DH.

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scdodgerfan:

If we consider the DH, Why not go all the way & have an offense & a defense like in football? This is not what I would want, but why limit it to only one player? Really I say no to the DH.
The AL has had the DL since 1973. They haven't expanded to 50 player rosters.

I don't like the DH, and I see what you're saying, but the AL will NEVER give up the DH. Ain't gonna happen. I was just wondering if it was time for both leagues to play the same game. So far, I think the best argument I've seen for the NL not implementing the DH, is that it pisses Hank Steinbrenner off.

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Babe Herman:

So far, I think the best argument I've seen for the NL not implementing the DH, is that it pisses Hank Steinbrenner off.
:thumbup: . . . Heh!! That gave me a chuckle. Pissing off a Stienbrenner is always a good thing!

Well, this argument has even more Validity now that Bud-lite is pulling rules out of his ass. Time to let go of the tradition gripe when it is being thrown aside everywhere else, last nights game was a total farce, and now we are going to get a three inning game on tuesday/wednesday? This is a total mess.

It also brings up a gripe I've had for a long time with the f'n North East teams and bad weather... it seems every post season we lose games on acount of -20 degree weather and biblical rain/snow/hail/all three storms. It's rediculous, it's every single year and it can be predicted like clockwork. at some point in the postseason some NE team is gonna F things up because they isnist on building all these new stadiums as open air, even when they know that they are going to lose several games at the begining, and more importantly end, of every season to wrath-of-god-like-weather. Everyone who lives in the NE cant possibly be that stupid to just let it continue, can they? time to force all teams above a certain longitude to include stationary or retractible roofs on any new stadium they build.

bleh, anyway, that doesn't have anything to do with this conversation...

Man, you called it. Bud Lite pulling rules out his ample ass!

On the DH thing, I hate it, but it was unfair for the Dodgers to try to sign Manny when he's looking for 5 years on his next contract. He might be very useable as a DH into his 40's, but how many non-steroidal 40+ outfielders are out there for 150 games per year at a level comparable to what Manny is asking. No way the Dodgers can or should compete with an AL team in a 4 year or longer deal for Manny, because we can't use him as a DH.

And, speaking of Bud Lite, those Bud Lite (not the commish) beer commercials crack me up, not the way they are intended to. Every one of those lame "drinkability" adds compares drinking Bud Lite to drinking water, which it is damn near what it is.

Don't be afraid of the dark.

lol! Spoken like a true Patriot!